August 09 , 2005

Churches and Concealed Carry
By Nathan Barton

I considered your position regarding the application of 2nd Amendment prohibitions to non-governmental entities, and I'm afraid I can't agree. Your position is well thought out, and well resented. However, when you say, "For example, no one would claim that our right to be free from involuntary servitude (that is, slavery) can be 'waived' or made void on private property," this is a completely different situation, because you would be doing more than simply deferring to the property owners wishes. You would actually be physically imposed upon, and, I assume, not be free to leave at will. Free speech, on the other hand, as well as RKBA, in the situation you described, would be simply complying with and deferring to the wishes of the property owner. Assuming you are free to leave at any time, or to not enter onto the owner's property in the first place, your rights are not being infringed upon at all. The Bill of Rights, along with the rest of the Constitution, applies to the federal government, and no other entity - not even the States, regardless of what the apologists for that illegal, ungratified tripe have to say. H. S.

Thank you for taking the time to comment. I appreciate your effort.

I considered your position regarding the application of 2nd Amendment prohibitions to non-governmental entities, and I'm afraid I can't agree. Your position is well thought out, and well resented. Resented? I guess so. I resent churches who claim to be following God but are teaching and practicing the doctrines of Satan. But you clearly missed the major thrust of my article. The 2nd Amendment is a very small part: the introduction and a third reason when the first two alone are more than sufficient to support my thesis: the bearing of arms, even concealed, is fully in accordance with Biblical teaching, and those who claim some freedoms while rejecting others are hypocrites. I notice that you are replying to only a single, small paragraph of my article, and indeed the last (and least important) of my arguments. Why are you ignoring the others, yet rejecting my entire article?

However, when you say, "For example, no one would claim that our right to be free from involuntary servitude (that is, slavery) can be 'waived' or made void on private property," this is a completely different situation, because you would be doing more than simply deferring to the property owners wishes. You would actually be physically imposed upon, and, I assume, not be free to leave at will. Free speech, on the other hand, as well as RKBA, in the situation you described, would be simply complying with and deferring to the wishes of the property owner. They differ only in degree, not in kind. A denial of the right for a person to defend themselves IS a form of slavery. And besides, as I discussed, this is property which their members, in fact, do (theoretically) own: the UCC and Unitarians are congregational in polity, and most Lutheran churches in the US are as well. I may chose to limit my freedoms, my liberties, for the sake of my brethren (the argument of Romans 12 and other passages) but I cannot be coerced by others into surrendering my freedoms.

"Assuming you are free to leave at any time, or to not enter onto the owner's property in the first place, your rights are not being infringed upon at all."

Absolutely not - that is the fallacy of various businesses and agencies who demand that you surrender rights (such as protection against searches) for the "privilege" of entering their premises. Especially when you are a part-owner of the property, as I mentioned above. The same thing applies to post offices, GRTF-schools, and courthouses, to name just a few. Either We the People are owners or we aren't - but in neither case are we (supposed to be) slaves.

"The Bill of Rights, along with the rest of the Constitution, applies to the federal government, and no other entity - not even the States, regardless of what the apologists for that illegal, ungratified tripe have to say."

Well, I'm fortunate enough that I live in states that have their own Bills of Right(s) - but you miss the entire point of the Bill of Rights: this document does not ESTABLISH those rights, as it expressly states therein; the BOR merely formally recognizes the existance of those particular rights. And this article wasn't an argument over the various amendments to the Constitution - so I'll let your further statement go unchallenged. But you did not address the difference in language between the 2nd and other amendments: I would agree that those portions which start out "Congress shall make no law..." apply only to the FedGov: but the wording of the 2nd Amendment is more like that now applied to involuntary servitude. Are you saying that constitutionally only the FedGov can't hold slaves? A very curious interpretation, to say the least. Even so, that at best endangers one of my three reasons to bring these churches to task. I"d appreciate our comments on the other two, also.

Again, thank you for your comments! Nathan

Book Review: Out of the Gray Zone
By Susan Callaway, Editor

I've been working hard because I'm a slave. As far as god is concerned, he is out of the picture. He was merely the programmer and it is up to us to act as we have been programmed or more accurately play our part..... for the play has been written... we must do what we will. M.

I'm sorry you feel that way. God is a very personal, living and all powerful presence to a great many people, in spite of the many others who deny Him, yet use His name in vain. We can't communicate to you what God is or does any more than we can describe a sunset to a man born blind. Do you want to be a slave? MamaLiberty

Thanks for your comments! I can't post everything here, but will choose The best of The comments each day. I'll make every attempt to answer questions and get responses from The writers. I hope you will enjoy this new feature. Please let me know! Your feedback is always welcome. See The form at The bottom of The page.

Thanks! MamaLiberty

Archive for The Mailbag. --

Click onto The date on The archive calendar to reach The front page for each day.